1 00:00:10,299 --> 00:00:05,680 awake after a nice tasty meal okay so 2 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:10,309 I'd like to thank the ssee and IR VA 3 00:00:14,029 --> 00:00:12,450 program committee for inviting me to 4 00:00:18,410 --> 00:00:14,039 come and give this talk and I'd like to 5 00:00:21,740 --> 00:00:18,420 dedicate this talk to Betty Baron all 6 00:00:25,540 --> 00:00:21,750 right so how many of you know your 7 00:00:26,870 --> 00:00:25,550 astrological sign show hands all right 8 00:00:28,790 --> 00:00:26,880 good 9 00:00:31,940 --> 00:00:28,800 how many of your Leo's let's see all the 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:31,950 Leos we should have about 12 figures I 11 00:00:37,509 --> 00:00:35,010 come on all right how many of you have 12 00:00:43,009 --> 00:00:37,519 seen these sorts of things newspapers 13 00:00:47,419 --> 00:00:43,019 your daily horoscope okay how many of 14 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:47,429 you think this is a science I see one 15 00:00:49,759 --> 00:00:48,510 person with their hand up a couple of 16 00:00:54,739 --> 00:00:49,769 people have hands up do you think that 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:54,749 science good all right well the National 18 00:01:00,049 --> 00:00:57,170 Science Board thinks it's pseudoscience 19 00:01:01,669 --> 00:01:00,059 the National Science Board every year 20 00:01:03,619 --> 00:01:01,679 does a science and engineering indicator 21 00:01:06,260 --> 00:01:03,629 you and find these on the national 22 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:06,270 science foundation's website and they do 23 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:09,090 a number of surveys and other measures 24 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:11,729 every year to determine the knowledge 25 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:14,490 about science and engineering that in 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:19,250 the American population and they cite 27 00:01:24,830 --> 00:01:23,130 one measure of a Americans views on 28 00:01:28,459 --> 00:01:24,840 whether astrology as scientific has been 29 00:01:32,270 --> 00:01:28,469 included since the 1970s and they say 30 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:32,280 that astrology along with relief in 31 00:01:35,450 --> 00:01:33,570 lucky numbers and extrasensory 32 00:01:37,580 --> 00:01:35,460 perception and magnetic therapy and 33 00:01:40,700 --> 00:01:37,590 other things our examples of 34 00:01:46,849 --> 00:01:40,710 pseudoscience so and they ought to know 35 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:46,859 the National Science Board so if you 36 00:01:58,880 --> 00:01:55,490 how many people are interested in 37 00:02:00,650 --> 00:01:58,890 cryptozoology ICU cryptozoologists in 38 00:02:02,420 --> 00:02:00,660 the crowd okay how many people are 39 00:02:03,740 --> 00:02:02,430 interested in ESP and remote viewing I 40 00:02:07,749 --> 00:02:03,750 expect to see a fair number of remote 41 00:02:10,940 --> 00:02:07,759 viewing people in the crowd okay 42 00:02:12,890 --> 00:02:10,950 psychokinesis psychokinetic phenomena 43 00:02:15,980 --> 00:02:12,900 look at all this good here we are 44 00:02:17,500 --> 00:02:15,990 UFOs where are you of all people all 45 00:02:20,030 --> 00:02:17,510 right 46 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:20,040 remote viewing we've got the remote 47 00:02:24,830 --> 00:02:23,250 viewing crowd you're good alright so are 48 00:02:26,570 --> 00:02:24,840 these good representations of these 49 00:02:28,070 --> 00:02:26,580 disciplines as you think of them when 50 00:02:31,670 --> 00:02:28,080 you see these kinds of representations 51 00:02:33,140 --> 00:02:31,680 or do you think that your discipline is 52 00:02:35,020 --> 00:02:33,150 having a little more substance to it 53 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:35,030 than these kind of pop-culture 54 00:02:45,020 --> 00:02:42,090 representations so a few years ago bill 55 00:02:48,350 --> 00:02:45,030 Bengston our president presented a talk 56 00:02:51,949 --> 00:02:48,360 at our SSE meeting in 2012 bill had 57 00:02:55,310 --> 00:02:51,959 surveyed SSE members and had a really 58 00:02:58,990 --> 00:02:55,320 good response rate for a survey 428 of 59 00:03:03,320 --> 00:02:59,000 our members responded to this survey and 60 00:03:05,420 --> 00:03:03,330 they were asked to rank 10 phenomena 61 00:03:09,050 --> 00:03:05,430 that we'd like to talk about in the 62 00:03:10,550 --> 00:03:09,060 society in terms of how much acceptance 63 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:10,560 they have as to whether they had high 64 00:03:14,539 --> 00:03:12,930 confidence in them or whether they had 65 00:03:16,550 --> 00:03:14,549 some confidence some degree of 66 00:03:20,199 --> 00:03:16,560 skepticism or a high degree of 67 00:03:23,420 --> 00:03:20,209 skepticism on this Likert scale and 68 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:23,430 astrology came out as number 10 or as I 69 00:03:30,949 --> 00:03:24,930 think we're number one we're the most 70 00:03:33,530 --> 00:03:30,959 skeptical skeptical of the disciplines 71 00:03:35,390 --> 00:03:33,540 here and you can see here general psy 72 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:35,400 came out on top with this survey we're 73 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:36,690 more viewing was right in the middle in 74 00:03:40,870 --> 00:03:38,250 terms of the level of acceptance among 75 00:03:43,670 --> 00:03:40,880 our members in the sse these are all 76 00:03:45,620 --> 00:03:43,680 phenomena that have had plenty of talks 77 00:03:47,479 --> 00:03:45,630 pair is the Princeton engineering 78 00:03:50,289 --> 00:03:47,489 anomalies research lab for those of you 79 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:50,299 who are not familiar with what pair is 80 00:03:55,100 --> 00:03:53,010 he also asked people to rank their level 81 00:03:57,199 --> 00:03:55,110 of knowledge how much knowledge did the 82 00:03:58,640 --> 00:03:57,209 each of the members feel they had about 83 00:04:01,130 --> 00:03:58,650 those disciplines and you'll see a 84 00:04:03,260 --> 00:04:01,140 pretty strong correlation between the 85 00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:03,270 level of knowledge and the acceptance 86 00:04:07,530 --> 00:04:03,910 rank 87 00:04:09,090 --> 00:04:07,540 in this data again the majority of 88 00:04:12,210 --> 00:04:09,100 people rank their knowledge of general 89 00:04:16,229 --> 00:04:12,220 psy as most highly and their knowledge 90 00:04:18,390 --> 00:04:16,239 of astrology was ranked rather low they 91 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:18,400 were also asked their understanding of 92 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:20,410 published work on that particular topic 93 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:22,210 and again you can see a tie on 94 00:04:27,780 --> 00:04:24,730 out-of-body experiences and remote 95 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:27,790 viewing for third and fourth place again 96 00:04:35,010 --> 00:04:30,610 astrology the familiar with published 97 00:04:37,620 --> 00:04:35,020 work was ranked in number nine how much 98 00:04:41,310 --> 00:04:37,630 they based their rating on a credible 99 00:04:42,630 --> 00:04:41,320 authority not clear what however people 100 00:04:44,370 --> 00:04:42,640 would have defined that as a credible 101 00:04:47,730 --> 00:04:44,380 Authority and again a pretty strong 102 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:47,740 correlation here between acceptance of 103 00:04:53,130 --> 00:04:50,290 phenomenon and the knowledge from a 104 00:04:54,750 --> 00:04:53,140 credible Authority and then finally they 105 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:54,760 were asked to rank it based on personal 106 00:04:59,580 --> 00:04:57,010 experience rank that one piece is 107 00:05:01,260 --> 00:04:59,590 interesting here is that personal 108 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:01,270 experience was ranked as number five I'm 109 00:05:05,070 --> 00:05:03,130 not clear but since all of you seem to 110 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:05,080 know your son signs maybe that qualified 111 00:05:10,770 --> 00:05:08,290 as a personal experience how many of you 112 00:05:13,230 --> 00:05:10,780 have actually had a consultation with an 113 00:05:16,170 --> 00:05:13,240 astrologer well there's a fair number of 114 00:05:17,580 --> 00:05:16,180 you here oh that's pretty good okay so 115 00:05:19,170 --> 00:05:17,590 we're going to talk not about the Sun 116 00:05:20,940 --> 00:05:19,180 sign astrology in the newspapers but 117 00:05:25,410 --> 00:05:20,950 we're going to talk about astrology as 118 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:25,420 practiced by counseling astrologers so 119 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:27,310 first off we'll start with a brief very 120 00:05:31,980 --> 00:05:29,130 brief history of Western astrology 121 00:05:33,510 --> 00:05:31,990 there's a long history of astrology 122 00:05:35,550 --> 00:05:33,520 around the world but I'm just going to 123 00:05:37,110 --> 00:05:35,560 concentrate on Western astrology for the 124 00:05:40,580 --> 00:05:37,120 purpose of this talk and a very brief 125 00:05:45,060 --> 00:05:40,590 history and then this history goes back 126 00:05:46,830 --> 00:05:45,070 35,000 to 30,000 BCE with some of the 127 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:46,840 earliest archaeological artifacts 128 00:05:51,690 --> 00:05:49,110 finding bones with 29 notches that 129 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:51,700 correspond to the synodic month new moon 130 00:05:58,290 --> 00:05:54,370 cycle and representations of the various 131 00:06:01,650 --> 00:05:58,300 constellations in cave paintings by 132 00:06:04,610 --> 00:06:01,660 5,000 to 3,000 BCE we start to find 133 00:06:07,770 --> 00:06:04,620 megalithic constructions large you know 134 00:06:09,390 --> 00:06:07,780 monuments that are pretty well accepted 135 00:06:11,700 --> 00:06:09,400 by the scientific community as being 136 00:06:13,310 --> 00:06:11,710 used to predict in a lot of the 137 00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:13,320 alignment of various astronomical 138 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:17,710 phenomena well the time we get to three 139 00:06:24,870 --> 00:06:20,530 1000 BCE we start to find cuneiform 140 00:06:26,790 --> 00:06:24,880 tablets that not only show astronomical 141 00:06:29,130 --> 00:06:26,800 phenomena but begin to describe meaning 142 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:29,140 to these astral astronomical phenomena 143 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:31,810 so this could possibly be denoted as the 144 00:06:38,670 --> 00:06:33,850 beginning of astrology as we might think 145 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:38,680 of it and by 2000 to 1000 BCE with the 146 00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:41,290 Egyptian astrology we find specific 147 00:06:47,570 --> 00:06:43,030 references to the constellations as a 148 00:06:54,330 --> 00:06:51,930 the time we get to a thousand 100 Common 149 00:06:57,150 --> 00:06:54,340 Era we with the Greeks the Greeks 150 00:07:00,600 --> 00:06:57,160 adapted Babylonia astrology and they 151 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:00,610 began to integrate it into a larger 152 00:07:05,850 --> 00:07:04,090 philosophical framework Plato thought of 153 00:07:07,500 --> 00:07:05,860 the stars and planets as representing 154 00:07:10,230 --> 00:07:07,510 the world's soul or a universal 155 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:10,240 intelligence and integrated this into a 156 00:07:16,260 --> 00:07:13,450 rationalized Pythagorean system elements 157 00:07:19,110 --> 00:07:16,270 of fire earth air and water which are 158 00:07:22,830 --> 00:07:19,120 still a part of an astrological 159 00:07:25,170 --> 00:07:22,840 tradition today and Aristotle thought of 160 00:07:26,730 --> 00:07:25,180 God as the prime mover and that the 161 00:07:28,380 --> 00:07:26,740 planets were not causes but there were 162 00:07:30,780 --> 00:07:28,390 secondary causes and they were way of 163 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:30,790 translating the will of the prime mover 164 00:07:41,670 --> 00:07:39,210 to beings on earth Ptolemy is often 165 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:41,680 considered the father of the tropical 166 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:44,170 zodiac which is a way of measuring again 167 00:07:47,370 --> 00:07:45,850 the positions of the plan is defined by 168 00:07:48,270 --> 00:07:47,380 the spring equinox rather than the 169 00:07:49,980 --> 00:07:48,280 constellations 170 00:07:52,110 --> 00:07:49,990 the ancients were aware of the 171 00:07:53,790 --> 00:07:52,120 precession of the equinoxes and they 172 00:07:57,390 --> 00:07:53,800 still defined at this point reference 173 00:07:59,220 --> 00:07:57,400 from the first day of spring and Ptolemy 174 00:08:01,530 --> 00:07:59,230 also described motions in terms of 175 00:08:03,330 --> 00:08:01,540 epicycles because in this platonic 176 00:08:05,490 --> 00:08:03,340 system the earth was the center of the 177 00:08:08,010 --> 00:08:05,500 universe everything revolved around the 178 00:08:09,750 --> 00:08:08,020 earth and in order to explain the 179 00:08:12,450 --> 00:08:09,760 motions and the apparent backward motion 180 00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:12,460 of planets from our perspective the 181 00:08:17,430 --> 00:08:14,470 Ptolemaic system created a series of 182 00:08:20,070 --> 00:08:17,440 epicycles as a way of describing me so 183 00:08:22,290 --> 00:08:20,080 we still starts to see again a theoretic 184 00:08:27,390 --> 00:08:22,300 framework that was being developed to 185 00:08:29,340 --> 00:08:27,400 describe the motions with the advent of 186 00:08:31,170 --> 00:08:29,350 Christianity on the Star of Bethlehem 187 00:08:33,780 --> 00:08:31,180 the Magi is pretty well known 188 00:08:35,460 --> 00:08:33,790 story that the Magi are pretty well 189 00:08:38,690 --> 00:08:35,470 considered to have been astrologers and 190 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:38,700 followed an astronomical phenomena 191 00:08:44,310 --> 00:08:42,970 predicting the birth of Jesus in the New 192 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:44,320 Testament however we find no 193 00:08:48,330 --> 00:08:46,090 condemnation of astrology there's really 194 00:08:52,350 --> 00:08:48,340 not much discussion of astrology per se 195 00:08:54,390 --> 00:08:52,360 in the New Testament but as Christianity 196 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:54,400 developed and the doctrines begin to be 197 00:08:58,590 --> 00:08:56,050 developed st. Augustine developed the 198 00:09:00,420 --> 00:08:58,600 doctrine of original sin and the concept 199 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:00,430 that you had to have free will and free 200 00:09:05,460 --> 00:09:02,710 will was a necessity for salvation and 201 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:05,470 because of that idea the by the fourth 202 00:09:09,570 --> 00:09:08,110 century the church prohibited astrology 203 00:09:11,790 --> 00:09:09,580 because they felt that the future was 204 00:09:13,950 --> 00:09:11,800 unknowable and again that you needed to 205 00:09:16,830 --> 00:09:13,960 have free will in order to find 206 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:16,840 salvation you had to accept Jesus in 207 00:09:23,790 --> 00:09:21,490 order to be saved by the Middle Ages the 208 00:09:26,940 --> 00:09:23,800 Arabs were translating of Greek 209 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:26,950 astrology and then Latin scholars in 210 00:09:31,830 --> 00:09:28,690 turn translated those Arabic 211 00:09:35,940 --> 00:09:31,840 translations so to recover that some of 212 00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:35,950 this lost material and we find people 213 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:38,080 like Roger Bacon and Thomas Aquinas who 214 00:09:44,340 --> 00:09:41,370 accepted natural astrology again 215 00:09:46,710 --> 00:09:44,350 distinguishing that from the soul but 216 00:09:48,390 --> 00:09:46,720 talking about the impacts of astrology 217 00:09:50,430 --> 00:09:48,400 in relation to medicine alchemy 218 00:09:54,660 --> 00:09:50,440 meteorology and other more natural 219 00:09:57,540 --> 00:09:54,670 phenomena here by the Renaissance and 220 00:10:00,060 --> 00:09:57,550 enlightenment they was the rediscovery 221 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:00,070 of Greek philosophy and the sort of the 222 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:01,450 beginnings of what we start to think of 223 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:03,850 as science we have refinements that the 224 00:10:08,850 --> 00:10:06,310 Ptolemaic system enough observations to 225 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:08,860 begin to determine that this constant 226 00:10:12,690 --> 00:10:11,110 adding of epicycles wasn't an adequate 227 00:10:15,390 --> 00:10:12,700 way to predict the motions of the 228 00:10:17,610 --> 00:10:15,400 planets the Copernican revolution which 229 00:10:19,730 --> 00:10:17,620 then moved the center of the solar 230 00:10:22,140 --> 00:10:19,740 system to the Sun away from the earth 231 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:22,150 Kepler's laws of planetary motion which 232 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:24,130 now described the planetary motions in 233 00:10:28,530 --> 00:10:26,290 terms of ellipses rather than perfect 234 00:10:31,500 --> 00:10:28,540 circles moving away from the Platonic 235 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:31,510 ideals and the Scientific Revolution 236 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:35,290 occurred and we find this split with a 237 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:37,210 scientific revelation science got the 238 00:10:41,460 --> 00:10:39,370 physical domain and religion got the 239 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:41,470 spiritual domain and astrology was sort 240 00:10:44,910 --> 00:10:43,570 of left in the middle to be rejected and 241 00:10:50,579 --> 00:10:44,920 condemned by both 242 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:50,589 these camps so that's again a very brief 243 00:10:54,090 --> 00:10:52,690 history of the sort of background of 244 00:10:56,670 --> 00:10:54,100 astrology as you can see it is probably 245 00:10:59,579 --> 00:10:56,680 the oldest cultural phenomena that we 246 00:11:00,810 --> 00:10:59,589 have as a species and we've talked a 247 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:00,820 little bit about the astronomy of 248 00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:02,610 astrology some of you have seen an 249 00:11:06,180 --> 00:11:04,630 astrologer may have some ones to any of 250 00:11:07,530 --> 00:11:06,190 this but I don't want to make any 251 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:07,540 assumptions about what we're talking 252 00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:10,690 about here so we started off with a view 253 00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:12,160 of the solar system which you've 254 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:13,600 probably all seen we've got the Sun in 255 00:11:18,509 --> 00:11:15,010 the middle and we've got the orbiting 256 00:11:21,780 --> 00:11:18,519 Mercury Venus Earth Mars etc which are 257 00:11:23,460 --> 00:11:21,790 orbiting the Sun so that's the phenomena 258 00:11:25,170 --> 00:11:23,470 that we're actually trying to represent 259 00:11:28,410 --> 00:11:25,180 here and there's a number of ways of 260 00:11:29,490 --> 00:11:28,420 representing this astral astronomically 261 00:11:31,889 --> 00:11:29,500 that had nothing to do with astrology 262 00:11:34,650 --> 00:11:31,899 and the usual way of doing this is with 263 00:11:36,930 --> 00:11:34,660 this representation of the celestial 264 00:11:39,090 --> 00:11:36,940 sphere and so here we see in the 265 00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:39,100 celestial sphere the Sun and the Earth 266 00:11:44,610 --> 00:11:41,260 orbits around the Sun you see the tilt 267 00:11:49,470 --> 00:11:44,620 of the Earth's axis which is tilted with 268 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:49,480 respect to the Sun and north of course 269 00:11:54,569 --> 00:11:51,490 rotates on its axis every 24 hours which 270 00:11:56,519 --> 00:11:54,579 is what causes the days the Earth 271 00:11:59,100 --> 00:11:56,529 revolves around the Sun and we have the 272 00:12:01,230 --> 00:11:59,110 ecliptic defined by that plane which is 273 00:12:04,110 --> 00:12:01,240 a metric for measuring not only the 274 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:04,120 locations of the Sun but the moon and 275 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:09,010 other planets and so that describes the 276 00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:10,570 motion of the earth and the other 277 00:12:16,290 --> 00:12:13,920 planets similarly in that cryptic plane 278 00:12:19,139 --> 00:12:16,300 as I said of course we all know the 279 00:12:20,430 --> 00:12:19,149 earth rotates on this axis and so what 280 00:12:22,740 --> 00:12:20,440 before we talk about that first we'll go 281 00:12:25,079 --> 00:12:22,750 to talk location of the planets in the 282 00:12:28,259 --> 00:12:25,089 zodiac so from the Earth's perspective 283 00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:28,269 when we are on the earth and we look at 284 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:30,880 say the Sun we look past the Sun Oven in 285 00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:32,290 the background we see the constellations 286 00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:34,990 and so that's the zodiac that is the 287 00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:37,420 reference point so as the Earth revolves 288 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:40,750 around the Sun the apparent motion of 289 00:12:46,019 --> 00:12:42,730 the Sun is and the other planets is 290 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:46,029 through the whole constellations so when 291 00:12:50,009 --> 00:12:47,920 we talk about planets being in a 292 00:12:51,269 --> 00:12:50,019 particular sign those signs originally 293 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:51,279 were aligned with the constellations 294 00:12:54,930 --> 00:12:53,050 during the precession of the equinoxes 295 00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:54,940 that alignment is moved but we still use 296 00:13:01,950 --> 00:12:57,760 those names for the signs 297 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:01,960 I'm getting back to being on the planet 298 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:04,090 Earth here as we stand on the planet 299 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:05,170 Earth 300 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:07,690 and look at the celestial sphere the as 301 00:13:15,270 --> 00:13:13,330 we as we look north we see the Sun and 302 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:15,280 other planets all appear to rise in the 303 00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:17,890 east culminate overhead at roughly noon 304 00:13:21,450 --> 00:13:19,690 and set in the West and so we were 305 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:21,460 familiar with that phenomena with the 306 00:13:26,220 --> 00:13:23,170 Sun as it's obvious but all the planets 307 00:13:29,550 --> 00:13:26,230 appear to rotate rise and set throughout 308 00:13:33,180 --> 00:13:29,560 the day with the daily motion of the 309 00:13:35,130 --> 00:13:33,190 earth and so the representation of that 310 00:13:36,930 --> 00:13:35,140 and a horoscope is captured in this 311 00:13:40,890 --> 00:13:36,940 phenomena here so here we have a 312 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:40,900 horoscope set for the 22nd of April 2014 313 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:44,410 in Manchester England this has been 314 00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:47,050 animated to show the motions as time 315 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:50,980 progresses throughout the day and so the 316 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:54,730 eastern horizon is represented here so 317 00:13:59,820 --> 00:13:56,490 we can see at this point that 318 00:14:02,490 --> 00:13:59,830 Sagittarius is rising in at this 319 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:02,500 particular time the planets move as I 320 00:14:06,180 --> 00:14:04,810 said it throughout the day so we have 321 00:14:08,010 --> 00:14:06,190 Mars up here each of these lists are 322 00:14:09,870 --> 00:14:08,020 pieces of planet that's Saturn down 323 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:09,880 there we have Pluto over here we have 324 00:14:16,260 --> 00:14:13,210 the moon these are moving around the 325 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:16,270 daily motion of the planets rising and 326 00:14:21,420 --> 00:14:19,090 setting around the earth every 24 hours 327 00:14:23,820 --> 00:14:21,430 we see the locations of the planets in 328 00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:23,830 their zodiacal signs indicated here so 329 00:14:29,850 --> 00:14:25,750 as an example Jupiter's and cancer their 330 00:14:31,650 --> 00:14:29,860 Sun is in Taurus down here there are 331 00:14:34,290 --> 00:14:31,660 angular aspects that are measured 332 00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:34,300 between these planets and so we in this 333 00:14:38,340 --> 00:14:35,860 particular representation these blue 334 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:38,350 lines with triangles represent angular 335 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:40,330 relationships of approximately 120 336 00:14:47,310 --> 00:14:44,710 degrees or called trying these lines ok 337 00:14:51,690 --> 00:14:47,320 these lines here represent opposition's 338 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:51,700 about 180 degrees apart and this line 339 00:14:56,670 --> 00:14:54,010 here represents a square about Nerys 340 00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:56,680 apart and there are astrological meaning 341 00:15:04,110 --> 00:15:01,360 assigned to each of these aspects and as 342 00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:04,120 I said you can see now here in about the 343 00:15:07,890 --> 00:15:06,160 four or five hours of animation that 344 00:15:09,929 --> 00:15:07,900 we've been watching here the planets 345 00:15:16,559 --> 00:15:09,939 have moved quite a bit through the 346 00:15:18,869 --> 00:15:16,569 diurnal cycle these wedges here that are 347 00:15:21,359 --> 00:15:18,879 numbered 1 2 3 4 are the houses in these 348 00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:21,369 houses you'll notice the different sizes 349 00:15:25,319 --> 00:15:22,959 of these houses that's because 350 00:15:28,079 --> 00:15:25,329 Manchester England is very far north so 351 00:15:31,049 --> 00:15:28,089 these house positions are the size of 352 00:15:33,210 --> 00:15:31,059 those houses varies depending on the 353 00:15:35,399 --> 00:15:33,220 time of day and latitude more Stream 354 00:15:37,229 --> 00:15:35,409 northern latitudes have these wide 355 00:15:39,119 --> 00:15:37,239 offices so now you can see the 12th 356 00:15:44,519 --> 00:15:39,129 house is rather wide in this particular 357 00:15:46,189 --> 00:15:44,529 chart by 6 o'clock in the morning so 358 00:15:48,659 --> 00:15:46,199 that's the frame of reference that 359 00:15:51,319 --> 00:15:48,669 astrologers using when interpreting a 360 00:15:55,499 --> 00:15:51,329 horoscope this is the representation 361 00:15:57,359 --> 00:15:55,509 okay so that's the mechanics of it but 362 00:16:00,109 --> 00:15:57,369 there's astrological interpretation 363 00:16:03,389 --> 00:16:00,119 astrology is all about the meaning and 364 00:16:07,109 --> 00:16:03,399 astral logos translates fairly loosely 365 00:16:10,469 --> 00:16:07,119 to star language and on astrologer who 366 00:16:12,569 --> 00:16:10,479 is working with a client uses these all 367 00:16:14,549 --> 00:16:12,579 of these various symbols and assigns 368 00:16:17,969 --> 00:16:14,559 meaning to those symbols to interpret 369 00:16:21,029 --> 00:16:17,979 them in the context of a person so for 370 00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:21,039 every person that the client meets they 371 00:16:25,619 --> 00:16:22,959 cast a horoscope for the time place and 372 00:16:28,919 --> 00:16:25,629 location of the time a location of birth 373 00:16:31,229 --> 00:16:28,929 to get that chart and then interpret the 374 00:16:35,129 --> 00:16:31,239 positions based on those position but 375 00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:35,139 based on that astrological chart and in 376 00:16:39,439 --> 00:16:37,569 this interpretation the planets can 377 00:16:42,749 --> 00:16:39,449 loosely be thought of as verbs or 378 00:16:44,999 --> 00:16:42,759 translating to Drai's or energies the 379 00:16:48,929 --> 00:16:45,009 signs can be thought of as adverts how 380 00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:48,939 the planets are expressed so the Sun in 381 00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:51,279 Taurus is interpreted differently than 382 00:16:57,989 --> 00:16:56,079 the Sun and Leo as an example the houses 383 00:17:00,419 --> 00:16:57,999 are adverbs in the area of life in which 384 00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:00,429 they express so in this case the Sun is 385 00:17:05,549 --> 00:17:03,279 in the Sun is in Taurus in the fifth 386 00:17:08,519 --> 00:17:05,559 house and that would be often attributed 387 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:08,529 to children and creativity but if at the 388 00:17:13,069 --> 00:17:09,850 Sun were in the 10,000 would be 389 00:17:16,409 --> 00:17:13,079 attributed to career and public persona 390 00:17:19,109 --> 00:17:16,419 the ascendant which again varies every 391 00:17:21,689 --> 00:17:19,119 two hours or so based on time of birth 392 00:17:22,210 --> 00:17:21,699 is usually another key component of the 393 00:17:23,710 --> 00:17:22,220 Horus 394 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:23,720 in this case this ascendant is in 395 00:17:28,510 --> 00:17:26,210 Scorpio and it has Saturn on the 396 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:28,520 ascendant in the 12th house so that 397 00:17:34,810 --> 00:17:30,290 could be considered a malefic position 398 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:34,820 by many astrologers and then finally 399 00:17:39,820 --> 00:17:36,770 again these aspects either strengthen or 400 00:17:41,770 --> 00:17:39,830 weaken the positions of trying is 401 00:17:44,380 --> 00:17:41,780 considered a beneficial aspect it makes 402 00:17:46,690 --> 00:17:44,390 the harmonious relationship between the 403 00:17:50,110 --> 00:17:46,700 planets a square is considered dis 404 00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:50,120 harmonious and the tension aspect and so 405 00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:51,080 the key to an astrological 406 00:17:54,550 --> 00:17:52,910 interpretation is to combine all of 407 00:17:57,010 --> 00:17:54,560 these elements into a story and/or 408 00:17:59,320 --> 00:17:57,020 reading for a particular person to 409 00:18:01,690 --> 00:17:59,330 assess personality and other traits and 410 00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,700 characteristics there's a whole lot of 411 00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:03,200 other complexity to think about it to 412 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:04,910 this you can now look at the movements 413 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:06,530 of the planets as they are at the moment 414 00:18:11,380 --> 00:18:08,810 it are called transits and these things 415 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:11,390 are used to indicate timing and so 416 00:18:14,980 --> 00:18:13,130 oftentimes if the talking about 417 00:18:16,420 --> 00:18:14,990 astrology and they talk about what would 418 00:18:19,150 --> 00:18:16,430 be coming up in the next year they would 419 00:18:23,170 --> 00:18:19,160 be using those kinds of transits to make 420 00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:23,180 those predictions so that's a rough 421 00:18:28,990 --> 00:18:25,520 introduction to the mechanics and 422 00:18:30,460 --> 00:18:29,000 interpretation of astrology and so back 423 00:18:32,830 --> 00:18:30,470 to the original title here so it is 424 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:32,840 astrology science pseudoscience or 425 00:18:36,670 --> 00:18:35,090 something else I'm going to talk a 426 00:18:40,180 --> 00:18:36,680 little bit about some of the scientific 427 00:18:42,460 --> 00:18:40,190 evidence for astrology and in this case 428 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:42,470 this is scientific evidence for what we 429 00:18:46,060 --> 00:18:44,090 would think of as natal astrology the 430 00:18:49,060 --> 00:18:46,070 relationship of these planetary 431 00:18:52,930 --> 00:18:49,070 positions to personalities and human 432 00:18:54,850 --> 00:18:52,940 behavior so there's in terms of research 433 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:54,860 on human behavior there's three types of 434 00:18:59,020 --> 00:18:56,570 astrological research broadly we can 435 00:19:00,670 --> 00:18:59,030 categorize these as test of astrologers 436 00:19:02,050 --> 00:19:00,680 that is this is what astrologers claim 437 00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:02,060 they can do so we're going to try to 438 00:19:08,050 --> 00:19:05,200 evaluate whether they can do it or not 439 00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:08,060 comparisons of astrological factors with 440 00:19:11,620 --> 00:19:09,950 psychological inventories that's a 441 00:19:13,870 --> 00:19:11,630 fairly popular thing in the 20th century 442 00:19:16,030 --> 00:19:13,880 with the advent of psychology psychology 443 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:16,040 claims to do that which astrologers are 444 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:18,170 claiming to do be able to characterize 445 00:19:23,530 --> 00:19:21,170 people's behavior and motives and so 446 00:19:25,660 --> 00:19:23,540 there are tests that compared at 447 00:19:28,180 --> 00:19:25,670 astrology to psychological factors and 448 00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,190 then finally comparisons of astrological 449 00:19:34,180 --> 00:19:30,320 factors with something that one might 450 00:19:35,570 --> 00:19:34,190 call an objective behavior as a third 451 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:35,580 type of time 452 00:19:41,220 --> 00:19:39,610 so in terms of tests of astrologers some 453 00:19:43,710 --> 00:19:41,230 of the best known test of astrologers 454 00:19:47,999 --> 00:19:43,720 were conducted by Vernon Clark and the 455 00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:48,009 60s and I think 70s and there are three 456 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:50,049 pretty well known tests at Clark did the 457 00:19:55,860 --> 00:19:52,210 first of which all of these use 458 00:19:58,590 --> 00:19:55,870 experienced astrologers as their test 459 00:20:01,289 --> 00:19:58,600 subjects and in the first test 460 00:20:04,409 --> 00:20:01,299 they astrologers were given charts of 461 00:20:06,989 --> 00:20:04,419 five males and five females and they 462 00:20:08,820 --> 00:20:06,999 were asked to match the charts to the 463 00:20:12,330 --> 00:20:08,830 people based on descriptions of their 464 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:12,340 occupations they varied in ages from 45 465 00:20:16,980 --> 00:20:14,610 to 65 so they were all fairly 466 00:20:19,109 --> 00:20:16,990 experienced in whatever occupation they 467 00:20:20,669 --> 00:20:19,119 had and they all had accurate birth 468 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:20,679 times and we'll talk about the 469 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:22,210 importance of accurate birth signs but 470 00:20:27,899 --> 00:20:24,490 to do a horoscope you do need an 471 00:20:29,549 --> 00:20:27,909 accurate birth time in this case the 472 00:20:31,950 --> 00:20:29,559 astrologers were able to perform fairly 473 00:20:34,769 --> 00:20:31,960 well on average six point four out of 474 00:20:40,350 --> 00:20:34,779 ten of these charts were matched 475 00:20:42,149 --> 00:20:40,360 correctly the teeth are less than 10 to 476 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:42,159 minus 7 so they did a pretty good job 477 00:20:47,999 --> 00:20:45,690 with that one in the second test 478 00:20:51,210 --> 00:20:48,009 astrologers were given 10 charts to 479 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:51,220 match against 10 case histories and 480 00:20:53,730 --> 00:20:52,450 these were written case histories they 481 00:20:55,950 --> 00:20:53,740 were not actually interacting with the 482 00:20:58,259 --> 00:20:55,960 clients and any of these cases they had 483 00:21:00,269 --> 00:20:58,269 to identify a true chart from a randomly 484 00:21:01,739 --> 00:21:00,279 generated control so for each of the 10 485 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:01,749 case histories they had a pair of charts 486 00:21:07,259 --> 00:21:03,850 or authentic chart and a randomly 487 00:21:09,299 --> 00:21:07,269 generated false chart and there they 488 00:21:14,930 --> 00:21:09,309 were able to perform very well 7.2 out 489 00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:14,940 of 10 P to minus 10 to the minus ninth 490 00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:17,919 in the third test they were given 10 491 00:21:21,330 --> 00:21:19,480 pairs of charts and in these case they 492 00:21:23,940 --> 00:21:21,340 were all authentic charts one chart was 493 00:21:26,159 --> 00:21:23,950 a subject that had cerebral palsy severe 494 00:21:29,369 --> 00:21:26,169 mental debility and the other chart was 495 00:21:31,739 --> 00:21:29,379 a subject that had high intelligence and 496 00:21:33,930 --> 00:21:31,749 they were asked to identify which was 497 00:21:35,549 --> 00:21:33,940 which in each of these ten pairs here 498 00:21:37,889 --> 00:21:35,559 they didn't perform quite as well five 499 00:21:40,109 --> 00:21:37,899 point nine out of ten but it's still 500 00:21:45,509 --> 00:21:40,119 statistically significant P less than 501 00:21:47,549 --> 00:21:45,519 0.02 so there's several problems with 502 00:21:48,270 --> 00:21:47,559 these matching experiments the first eye 503 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:48,280 that there's several 504 00:21:52,050 --> 00:21:50,530 hidden clues dates or ages of an 505 00:21:53,820 --> 00:21:52,060 experienced astrologer even without the 506 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:53,830 date by looking at a horoscope can 507 00:21:57,660 --> 00:21:56,050 pretty well identify what data was done 508 00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:57,670 because they know where the planets are 509 00:22:02,370 --> 00:22:00,400 if they've done enough horoscopes the 510 00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:02,380 self descriptions can be influenced by 511 00:22:05,010 --> 00:22:03,760 knowledge of astrology and we'll talk 512 00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:05,020 about that a little more there's other 513 00:22:10,020 --> 00:22:07,960 instances of that impacting research and 514 00:22:11,940 --> 00:22:10,030 there are some statistical and sampling 515 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:11,950 challenges here we have a few charts and 516 00:22:16,410 --> 00:22:14,610 a large number of astrologers and the 517 00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:16,420 particulars of the charts that were 518 00:22:22,530 --> 00:22:18,550 selected could have a substantial impact 519 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:22,540 on the outcome and a lot of criticism of 520 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:24,490 these tests suggests that they would be 521 00:22:28,110 --> 00:22:26,050 better to use a large number of charts 522 00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:28,120 and a smaller number of astrologers but 523 00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:29,710 of course that's an exhausting task to 524 00:22:36,420 --> 00:22:31,360 ask somebody to do hundreds of charts 525 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:36,430 and compare and match them the second 526 00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:38,650 type of test astrology is compared to 527 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:41,200 psychological inventories and the 528 00:22:45,060 --> 00:22:42,850 subjects for psychological inventories 529 00:22:46,790 --> 00:22:45,070 ask a series of questions with which 530 00:22:49,470 --> 00:22:46,800 they usually strongly agree disagree 531 00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:49,480 strongly disagree and then these 532 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:51,760 questions are used to characterize their 533 00:22:56,370 --> 00:22:53,530 personalities and there's a several of 534 00:22:59,220 --> 00:22:56,380 these kinds of tests the Minnesota 535 00:23:01,320 --> 00:22:59,230 multiphasic personality inventory the 536 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:01,330 aiesec personality inventory the 537 00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:03,010 California personality inventory the 538 00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:04,720 sixteen personality factor there's a 539 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:06,640 bunch of these things that are out there 540 00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:11,290 and one of the earliest of these tests 541 00:23:14,460 --> 00:23:13,030 was done by male white and I think and I 542 00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:14,470 think is the icing of the icing 543 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:16,240 personality inventory so he was involved 544 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:18,730 in this test he was not an astrologer 545 00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:21,730 but was very interested in the 546 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:24,310 possibility of confirming the utility of 547 00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:28,330 his personality inventory and the 548 00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:29,980 hypothesis here was that extraversion 549 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:31,360 and introversion which are one of the 550 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:34,090 scales on the DPI would correlate with 551 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:37,210 alternating Sun signs that Aries is 552 00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:38,770 extraverted Taurus is introverted 553 00:23:43,770 --> 00:23:41,830 Gemini's extroverted and so forth and in 554 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:43,780 this case they found a very strong 555 00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:45,970 support for this hypothesis P less than 556 00:23:50,970 --> 00:23:48,910 0.001 and this test was replicated by 557 00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:50,980 other people and so this was considered 558 00:23:56,460 --> 00:23:53,710 a fairly significant result at the time 559 00:23:59,160 --> 00:23:56,470 that it happened however subsequent 560 00:24:00,780 --> 00:23:59,170 research revealed that the subjects had 561 00:24:02,330 --> 00:24:00,790 some knowledge of astrology and that 562 00:24:04,340 --> 00:24:02,340 confounded the results and 563 00:24:07,010 --> 00:24:04,350 only required a modest knowledge of Sun 564 00:24:09,050 --> 00:24:07,020 sign traits and so you all as an example 565 00:24:11,210 --> 00:24:09,060 indicated you know your Sun signs you 566 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:11,220 probably have some idea of what those 567 00:24:14,930 --> 00:24:13,170 traits that are associated with those 568 00:24:17,210 --> 00:24:14,940 Sun signs are and the point was that 569 00:24:20,660 --> 00:24:17,220 that indicated just having that 570 00:24:22,850 --> 00:24:20,670 knowledge alone was enough to impact the 571 00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:22,860 results which is probably more of a 572 00:24:25,910 --> 00:24:24,240 condemnation of the personality 573 00:24:31,490 --> 00:24:25,920 inventory than of astrology at that 574 00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:31,500 point one of the more famous test that 575 00:24:35,540 --> 00:24:34,260 was done of comparing astrology to 576 00:24:37,580 --> 00:24:35,550 personality inventory it was done by 577 00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:37,590 Sean Carlson and it was published in 578 00:24:42,620 --> 00:24:40,860 nature in 1985 and one thing that's in 579 00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:42,630 thing to keep in mind it was published 580 00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:44,340 as a commentary in nature so was not 581 00:24:49,490 --> 00:24:47,430 peer-reviewed but in this test 582 00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:49,500 astrologers were asked to interpret 583 00:24:54,620 --> 00:24:52,950 subject horoscopes and then prepare a 584 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:54,630 written interpretation of those 585 00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:56,490 horoscope and then each subject took the 586 00:25:02,030 --> 00:24:59,760 California personality inventory and the 587 00:25:04,670 --> 00:25:02,040 subjects were asked to then pick their 588 00:25:06,890 --> 00:25:04,680 horoscope from one of three pick out the 589 00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:06,900 one that describes you and they were 590 00:25:11,210 --> 00:25:08,640 unable to do that had a statistically 591 00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:11,220 significant Bible they were also unable 592 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:14,310 to select their own CPI description from 593 00:25:19,580 --> 00:25:17,610 among the three and astrologers were 594 00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:19,590 unable to match their horoscope to any 595 00:25:24,980 --> 00:25:22,110 of the three CPI profiles in that test 596 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:24,990 so that was considered refutation of 597 00:25:31,450 --> 00:25:27,330 astrology and it's been well publicized 598 00:25:34,220 --> 00:25:31,460 in the skeptical community and that has 599 00:25:37,850 --> 00:25:34,230 that stood the test of time until not 600 00:25:40,190 --> 00:25:37,860 too long ago when sweet burger tell did 601 00:25:43,790 --> 00:25:40,200 an interesting reanalysis of this test 602 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:43,800 and so among the criticisms of this test 603 00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:45,690 it had been voiced before was that this 604 00:25:50,210 --> 00:25:47,430 California personality inventory has 605 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:50,220 very poor psychometrics technical 606 00:25:53,570 --> 00:25:52,290 details about the way in which the CPI 607 00:25:57,050 --> 00:25:53,580 was developed and it's actually a 608 00:25:58,940 --> 00:25:57,060 critique of the CPI itself and the other 609 00:26:00,860 --> 00:25:58,950 major critique is that the subjects and 610 00:26:04,220 --> 00:26:00,870 astrologers themselves are not trained 611 00:26:05,690 --> 00:26:04,230 in the CPI and the manual for the CPI is 612 00:26:07,580 --> 00:26:05,700 very clear that you have to be trained 613 00:26:11,810 --> 00:26:07,590 in order to be able to do an 614 00:26:13,790 --> 00:26:11,820 interpretation of the CPI the data 615 00:26:16,049 --> 00:26:13,800 analysis is also a three way comparison 616 00:26:17,849 --> 00:26:16,059 versus a two way comparison so the 617 00:26:20,219 --> 00:26:17,859 correct statistical comparison should be 618 00:26:23,070 --> 00:26:20,229 pickier correct one from among the three 619 00:26:24,899 --> 00:26:23,080 not a one out of three but it's you know 620 00:26:26,099 --> 00:26:24,909 if you got right versus wrong as the way 621 00:26:29,129 --> 00:26:26,109 in which that should be compared 622 00:26:31,409 --> 00:26:29,139 statistically and it also had a very low 623 00:26:33,239 --> 00:26:31,419 test power because the small and there 624 00:26:35,519 --> 00:26:33,249 was a small number of participants and 625 00:26:38,909 --> 00:26:35,529 there were no effect size calculations 626 00:26:40,889 --> 00:26:38,919 but when hotel reanalyzed these data if 627 00:26:44,639 --> 00:26:40,899 they actually with a binomial test had a 628 00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:44,649 very modest effect size of 0.12 0.5 so 629 00:26:51,239 --> 00:26:47,950 in that sense in Carlson's own data or 630 00:26:57,799 --> 00:26:51,249 tell show that there there actually was 631 00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:57,809 a positive result so we'll move on from 632 00:27:03,149 --> 00:26:59,919 tests of personality inventories to 633 00:27:04,469 --> 00:27:03,159 tests of objective behavior and in this 634 00:27:06,389 --> 00:27:04,479 case we talked about some of the 635 00:27:08,729 --> 00:27:06,399 dependent variable being some behavior 636 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:08,739 trait is defined on a non astrological 637 00:27:14,430 --> 00:27:11,129 basis and the independent variable is 638 00:27:15,959 --> 00:27:14,440 one or more astrological factors and the 639 00:27:17,489 --> 00:27:15,969 guy he's the way in which you determine 640 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:17,499 whether this works or not is by a 641 00:27:23,729 --> 00:27:19,690 measuring the statistical deviation from 642 00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:23,739 chance the best known of this work has 643 00:27:28,619 --> 00:27:26,320 done by Michele and Francois Fillon and 644 00:27:31,769 --> 00:27:28,629 then 1950s all the way up through the 645 00:27:36,289 --> 00:27:31,779 90s when with their respective deaths 646 00:27:38,729 --> 00:27:36,299 and the golf clown research basically 647 00:27:42,269 --> 00:27:38,739 they had three major thrusts of the 648 00:27:44,339 --> 00:27:42,279 research one was to look at the eminent 649 00:27:46,379 --> 00:27:44,349 professionals in a variety of 650 00:27:48,810 --> 00:27:46,389 professions sports champions military 651 00:27:51,509 --> 00:27:48,820 and physicians a number of other 652 00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:51,519 professions they looked at the 653 00:27:54,779 --> 00:27:53,049 relationships and heredity between 654 00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:54,789 parents and children this is some of 655 00:27:58,729 --> 00:27:56,559 their less known work and then they also 656 00:28:01,289 --> 00:27:58,739 looked at various character traits and 657 00:28:04,709 --> 00:28:01,299 in the goblins own research they found 658 00:28:07,589 --> 00:28:04,719 no evidence for astrological signs they 659 00:28:09,629 --> 00:28:07,599 found no evidence for aspects but they 660 00:28:11,459 --> 00:28:09,639 did find evidence for planets rising and 661 00:28:13,889 --> 00:28:11,469 culminating in that daily motion that we 662 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:13,899 showed you earlier and that's fairly 663 00:28:17,489 --> 00:28:15,369 strong evidence we should talk about 664 00:28:19,859 --> 00:28:17,499 that in a moment so going back to this 665 00:28:23,459 --> 00:28:19,869 representation of a horoscope here with 666 00:28:27,479 --> 00:28:23,469 the eastern horizon here in the planets 667 00:28:28,830 --> 00:28:27,489 rising and culminating setting the coke 668 00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:28,840 lines basically are using a host 669 00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:30,640 but they numbered them clockwise instead 670 00:28:37,049 --> 00:28:35,110 of counterclockwise and what I call it 671 00:28:40,769 --> 00:28:37,059 the Coughlin plus zone start just before 672 00:28:42,090 --> 00:28:40,779 the rising up through the about what 673 00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:42,100 would be considered the twelfth house in 674 00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:44,799 standard astrology and just before 675 00:28:47,850 --> 00:28:46,480 culminating through what would because 676 00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:47,860 they're to the ninth house in standard 677 00:28:55,289 --> 00:28:50,320 astrology as the primary call kalam plus 678 00:28:57,269 --> 00:28:55,299 zones and in those zones the Mars sports 679 00:28:59,100 --> 00:28:57,279 champion is data are the best-known and 680 00:29:02,310 --> 00:28:59,110 this is of Aditya of Sports Champions 681 00:29:03,690 --> 00:29:02,320 where Mars is rising and culminating 682 00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:03,700 much more frequently and expected by 683 00:29:08,159 --> 00:29:06,159 chance the inner circle represents the 684 00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:08,169 expected frequency and so you see a 685 00:29:13,649 --> 00:29:10,840 surplus of Mars rising and surplus of 686 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:13,659 Mars culminating much more frequently 687 00:29:21,450 --> 00:29:16,210 than expected by chance now this result 688 00:29:26,610 --> 00:29:21,460 oh no way five minutes I said I've only 689 00:29:30,350 --> 00:29:26,620 been going thirty ok well I guess we 690 00:29:33,330 --> 00:29:30,360 have to move it on here all right so the 691 00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:33,340 go Klein professions several professions 692 00:29:36,779 --> 00:29:34,960 several planets these align with 693 00:29:40,620 --> 00:29:36,789 traditional astrological interpretation 694 00:29:43,919 --> 00:29:40,630 but rising and culminating does not and 695 00:29:46,049 --> 00:29:43,929 the go clunky findings are that this in 696 00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:46,059 fact increases with eminence and that 697 00:29:51,330 --> 00:29:48,640 children tend to be born with planets in 698 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:51,340 the same sector as their parents okay 699 00:29:57,389 --> 00:29:54,010 but there was a great controversy with 700 00:30:00,210 --> 00:29:57,399 his data in the Belgian Committee for 701 00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:00,220 analyzed that ad in 1968 replicating 702 00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:02,110 their results and refusing to publish 703 00:30:07,730 --> 00:30:05,049 for eight years challenging their 704 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:07,740 expected frequency calculations 705 00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:09,730 objections to astrology this is the 706 00:30:13,169 --> 00:30:11,320 actual beginning document for the 707 00:30:14,610 --> 00:30:13,179 committee for this like typic 708 00:30:17,549 --> 00:30:14,620 investigation of claims of the 709 00:30:19,169 --> 00:30:17,559 paranormal the Zelan tests of expected 710 00:30:21,899 --> 00:30:19,179 frequencies in which they matched 711 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:21,909 ordinary bursts confirm the results but 712 00:30:26,639 --> 00:30:23,890 psychic failed to acknowledge that and 713 00:30:30,930 --> 00:30:26,649 the star baby was the beginning of this 714 00:30:32,850 --> 00:30:30,940 controversy this is that controversy has 715 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:32,860 been well documented by sweet burger 716 00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:34,690 telling Kenneth Irving Canada's here if 717 00:30:37,770 --> 00:30:36,399 you wanted more questions about this 718 00:30:41,310 --> 00:30:37,780 he'd be happy to talk with you I'm sure 719 00:30:42,140 --> 00:30:41,320 and covered this eminence effect in this 720 00:30:43,670 --> 00:30:42,150 kept takes data 721 00:30:47,300 --> 00:30:43,680 showing all the skeptics had fudged 722 00:30:51,230 --> 00:30:47,310 their own data in order to overcome the 723 00:30:57,410 --> 00:30:51,240 astrology the Copeland effect size has 724 00:30:59,690 --> 00:30:57,420 got a large n but with its phorid and 35 725 00:31:03,380 --> 00:30:59,700 sports champions having Mars rising you 726 00:31:05,090 --> 00:31:03,390 expect 358 it's very significant but 727 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:05,100 it's really a very small effect size so 728 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:06,930 you can't really use it in practice it 729 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:07,890 doesn't do you very good 730 00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:09,690 I see Mars rising I can't predict you'll 731 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:12,720 get sports champion and it's a similar 732 00:31:18,590 --> 00:31:15,090 effect size to size phenomenon that's an 733 00:31:19,940 --> 00:31:18,600 interesting piece that get back to 734 00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:19,950 shortly I hope if I don't run out of 735 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:21,840 time so there's several methodological 736 00:31:26,540 --> 00:31:25,170 challenges with this work here astrology 737 00:31:29,270 --> 00:31:26,550 has a lot of research problems these 738 00:31:31,310 --> 00:31:29,280 effects are subtle we compare expected 739 00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:31,320 to observe values and the control 740 00:31:35,570 --> 00:31:33,510 procedures are usually aware astrology 741 00:31:39,740 --> 00:31:35,580 research fails for a failure to have 742 00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:39,750 inanimate controls there's a number of 743 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:41,760 astronomical factors planet position 744 00:31:47,210 --> 00:31:43,890 interactions demographic factors that 745 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:47,220 impact these things one of the more 746 00:31:50,810 --> 00:31:49,050 interesting ones is induced births the 747 00:31:53,030 --> 00:31:50,820 golems found that these effects go away 748 00:31:55,250 --> 00:31:53,040 with induced births and currently in the 749 00:31:57,170 --> 00:31:55,260 u.s. forty percent of births are induced 750 00:32:01,370 --> 00:31:57,180 which makes astrological research 751 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:01,380 extremely challenging and as I mentioned 752 00:32:04,610 --> 00:32:02,850 controls groups are very important I'm 753 00:32:06,340 --> 00:32:04,620 going to skip these pieces here because 754 00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:06,350 I want to get to the end here so I 755 00:32:12,290 --> 00:32:09,630 apologize my time and your time are not 756 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:12,300 the same ball so I guess we're in 757 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:16,650 different time zones okay let's see so 758 00:32:22,940 --> 00:32:19,290 in univariate analyses were doing one of 759 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:22,950 these things one at a time but in 760 00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:25,170 multivariate analysis we can compare 761 00:32:29,630 --> 00:32:27,840 more than two variables at once and so 762 00:32:32,180 --> 00:32:29,640 here if we're comparing two variables on 763 00:32:33,770 --> 00:32:32,190 two different things we measure them and 764 00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:33,780 then we do it again for another variable 765 00:32:41,570 --> 00:32:38,480 and we do them one at a time we can 766 00:32:43,250 --> 00:32:41,580 actually astrological interpretation is 767 00:32:45,020 --> 00:32:43,260 an is an integration of all these 768 00:32:48,740 --> 00:32:45,030 variables and so that's an a key piece 769 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:48,750 here in multivariate analysis is a way 770 00:32:57,410 --> 00:32:53,970 of doing that and so we can flip this 771 00:32:59,450 --> 00:32:57,420 axis and map the individual components 772 00:33:01,280 --> 00:32:59,460 and now we look at the correlations and 773 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:01,290 covariances of our variables and use 774 00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:05,370 that for multivariate analysis I've done 775 00:33:08,390 --> 00:33:06,510 a couple of these tests with 776 00:33:10,730 --> 00:33:08,400 discriminant analysis one comparing 777 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:10,740 alcoholic anonymous members to control 778 00:33:21,260 --> 00:33:14,130 groups and we were able to correctly 779 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:21,270 classify people as a members or not have 780 00:33:28,010 --> 00:33:25,290 a pretty high statistical power and also 781 00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:28,020 attempted to differentiate eight of the 782 00:33:32,330 --> 00:33:30,320 Coplan professions using that test 783 00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:32,340 randomly we would be able to do this 784 00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:34,710 twelve and a half percent of the time in 785 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:37,110 the first test nineteen percent and the 786 00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:38,850 second test sixteen percent again very 787 00:33:46,190 --> 00:33:43,670 good statistical power here so 788 00:33:47,330 --> 00:33:46,200 astrologers do synthesize variables but 789 00:33:49,370 --> 00:33:47,340 we think that multivariate techniques 790 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:49,380 might be a better way to model that and 791 00:33:54,140 --> 00:33:51,090 this that does provide much higher 792 00:33:55,790 --> 00:33:54,150 resolution a much more authentic test so 793 00:33:59,150 --> 00:33:55,800 back to the original question is as 794 00:34:02,060 --> 00:33:59,160 science pseudoscience or an anomaly well 795 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:02,070 science is a study of a body of facts or 796 00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:05,850 truths we can call the discipline like 797 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:07,440 chemistry or physics but it's also a 798 00:34:14,210 --> 00:34:10,650 systematic it's a procedure for studying 799 00:34:16,540 --> 00:34:14,220 the physical and material world and in 800 00:34:18,980 --> 00:34:16,550 normal science according to Thomas Kuhn 801 00:34:20,570 --> 00:34:18,990 when finding previously unpredicted 802 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:20,580 phenomena we show how that phenomena is 803 00:34:26,210 --> 00:34:23,610 explained with an existing paradigm but 804 00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:26,220 in pseudo science we have a number of 805 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:30,870 phenomena here that are outside of the 806 00:34:34,700 --> 00:34:32,370 bounds of normal science because they 807 00:34:37,130 --> 00:34:34,710 fall outside of our existing theories 808 00:34:40,370 --> 00:34:37,140 and so rather than just trying to deal 809 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:40,380 with those anomalies often the label of 810 00:34:46,130 --> 00:34:42,770 pseudoscience is applied to that but we 811 00:34:50,810 --> 00:34:46,140 it really is a more of a pejorative term 812 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:50,820 than a technical definition and in in 813 00:34:58,910 --> 00:34:54,930 Kunz thinking anomalies violate 814 00:35:00,290 --> 00:34:58,920 paradigms and induce a crisis in science 815 00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:00,300 until you can come up with a new 816 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:02,430 paradigm that would explain those 817 00:35:07,099 --> 00:35:03,450 phenomena 818 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:07,109 and so the goal of scientific 819 00:35:11,359 --> 00:35:09,450 revolutions and as far as kun is 820 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:11,369 concerned is to move paradigms forward 821 00:35:15,410 --> 00:35:14,130 and that that's what we think astrology 822 00:35:17,630 --> 00:35:15,420 and many of these are the phenomena 823 00:35:19,220 --> 00:35:17,640 represent those anomalies and the reason 824 00:35:22,099 --> 00:35:19,230 that they're reported by science is 825 00:35:25,370 --> 00:35:22,109 because they do violate those paradigms 826 00:35:27,799 --> 00:35:25,380 and makes it difficult for scientists to 827 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:27,809 conduct normal science as we usually 828 00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:34,290 have so with that I'd like to again we 829 00:35:38,809 --> 00:35:35,910 have no known mechanism in astrology 830 00:35:40,370 --> 00:35:38,819 there's a phenomena there it's amenable 831 00:35:42,109 --> 00:35:40,380 to scientific research we have strong 832 00:35:45,020 --> 00:35:42,119 statistical evidence but we have small 833 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:45,030 effect sized again and like we have with 834 00:35:50,750 --> 00:35:47,130 many other of the phenomena that are 835 00:35:52,299 --> 00:35:50,760 investigated here in SSE and IR da well 836 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:52,309 we'll all the claims are practitioners 837 00:35:58,460 --> 00:35:54,690 so of that I'd like to thank you and 838 00:35:58,470 --> 00:36:24,070 [Applause] 839 00:36:33,110 --> 00:36:29,990 okay you may be familiar with the name 840 00:36:34,970 --> 00:36:33,120 of Jeffrey Armstrong the Vedic Astrology 841 00:36:37,010 --> 00:36:34,980 I'm sure you're familiar with the name 842 00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:37,020 Michael Shermer right well Michael 843 00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:38,940 Shermer had a program called exploring 844 00:36:46,460 --> 00:36:42,480 the uninvited astrologers to come up we 845 00:36:48,740 --> 00:36:46,470 could show how they work it turned out 846 00:36:51,380 --> 00:36:48,750 though after he did this investigation 847 00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:51,390 that whole thing where you swapped the 848 00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:54,240 real astrology reading with someone 849 00:36:59,890 --> 00:36:56,160 else's and then you do a comparative 850 00:37:02,660 --> 00:36:59,900 analysis it turned out that it came out 851 00:37:08,180 --> 00:37:02,670 77% accuracy on the part of Jeff 852 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:08,190 Armstrong did okay so I guess the 853 00:37:12,830 --> 00:37:10,290 question is what about abetik vedic 854 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:12,840 astrology seems to be much more accurate 855 00:37:23,540 --> 00:37:20,960 yeah I'm cutting out how in the world 856 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:23,550 did Michael Shermer the famous skeptic 857 00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:25,890 allow that to go through you actually 858 00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:28,560 can find it on the Internet and Michael 859 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:31,680 Shermer does make a fairly weak argument 860 00:37:36,110 --> 00:37:33,090 about he didn't have enough time to 861 00:37:39,860 --> 00:37:36,120 debunk it but this the science showed 862 00:37:41,420 --> 00:37:39,870 otherwise sure again in this refresh 863 00:37:42,890 --> 00:37:41,430 question there are several schools of 864 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:42,900 astrology obviously I didn't have time 865 00:37:47,950 --> 00:37:45,050 to begin to scratch the surface here 866 00:37:51,710 --> 00:37:47,960 different frameworks for interpretation 867 00:37:54,020 --> 00:37:51,720 I wouldn't begin there are strong 868 00:37:55,820 --> 00:37:54,030 debates between the two schools I 869 00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:55,830 wouldn't begin to get involved in that 870 00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,290 debate and I guess I would say good to 871 00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:00,480 Michael Shermer for not burying the 872 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:06,240 positive result I see hi mark as you 873 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:08,610 know my spousal unit as a gifted 874 00:38:13,330 --> 00:38:12,330 astrology yes genus contention is that 875 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:13,340 most a straw 876 00:38:17,590 --> 00:38:15,290 don't know how to correct for time of 877 00:38:19,210 --> 00:38:17,600 birth that the correct time of birth is 878 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:19,220 the one where the major events in a 879 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:20,810 person's life fall out on the chart 880 00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:23,810 where they should write so perhaps if 881 00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:26,240 this which was being tested knew how to 882 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:27,710 correct for time of birth the effect 883 00:38:31,690 --> 00:38:31,010 wouldn't be so small that's a you're 884 00:38:34,090 --> 00:38:31,700 talking about what's called 885 00:38:37,420 --> 00:38:34,100 rectification where you use event timing 886 00:38:40,180 --> 00:38:37,430 to adjust the time of birth there's 887 00:38:41,860 --> 00:38:40,190 several ways of doing that of course 888 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:41,870 that becomes a challenge now because 889 00:38:45,550 --> 00:38:43,970 have you basically corrected the chart 890 00:38:48,250 --> 00:38:45,560 for research purposes have you corrected 891 00:38:50,410 --> 00:38:48,260 the horoscope to align with research 892 00:38:51,790 --> 00:38:50,420 results that would it's a thing that an 893 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:51,800 individual astrologer does with the 894 00:38:58,420 --> 00:38:55,970 client just let you know mark because we 895 00:39:00,160 --> 00:38:58,430 had some tech issues early on you got 896 00:39:01,510 --> 00:39:00,170 started too late so I'm gonna copy a few 897 00:39:04,690 --> 00:39:01,520 minutes and I'll get forgiveness from 898 00:39:06,820 --> 00:39:04,700 Garret later well-well go okay sorry for 899 00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:06,830 rushing you I'd be happy to review 900 00:39:10,270 --> 00:39:08,240 anything that was too fast at the end 901 00:39:14,590 --> 00:39:10,280 sorry anyway hi York 902 00:39:17,050 --> 00:39:14,600 hi I'd like to say that for me one of 903 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:17,060 the most convincing pieces of evidence 904 00:39:23,980 --> 00:39:21,970 is the fact that the astrological 905 00:39:27,370 --> 00:39:23,990 correlations that have turned up in 906 00:39:29,620 --> 00:39:27,380 these various analyses disappear with 907 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:29,630 people who have had induced births yes 908 00:39:36,220 --> 00:39:32,510 and I'm wondering if you have any 909 00:39:38,770 --> 00:39:36,230 opinions to offer about the increasing 910 00:39:41,380 --> 00:39:38,780 prevalence of induced birth and its 911 00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:41,390 impact on this field aside from making 912 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:44,240 research harder about it makes Reaser 913 00:39:49,630 --> 00:39:46,930 enormous lead ifficult 914 00:39:51,820 --> 00:39:49,640 the Copeland's had a couple of 915 00:39:54,790 --> 00:39:51,830 hypotheses about what was actually going 916 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:54,800 on here I think they would call this one 917 00:40:00,400 --> 00:39:57,170 the astrological midwife in other words 918 00:40:02,350 --> 00:40:00,410 it's not being born with particular 919 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:02,360 configurations that cause things but 920 00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:04,610 that you have a propensity a genetic 921 00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:06,560 propensity to be born at a particular 922 00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:09,110 astrological configuration so if the 923 00:40:13,540 --> 00:40:12,110 verses induce you don't see the accurate 924 00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:13,550 chart and that would get back to the 925 00:40:17,860 --> 00:40:15,440 rectification that Steve was asking 926 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:17,870 about in the previous question it does 927 00:40:21,890 --> 00:40:20,450 make the research to virtually 928 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:21,900 impossible to do 929 00:40:29,949 --> 00:40:26,130 if you're using natal astrology with 40% 930 00:40:33,219 --> 00:40:29,959 of the purse being induced in the US or 931 00:40:35,749 --> 00:40:33,229 recording of the birth times and then 932 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:35,759 new privacy restrictions makes it 933 00:40:39,049 --> 00:40:37,410 virtually impossible to get data so the 934 00:40:42,199 --> 00:40:39,059 Copeland's were able to just go into the 935 00:40:45,289 --> 00:40:42,209 records in Europe in the 50s and obtain 936 00:40:46,939 --> 00:40:45,299 these data without any hassle you could 937 00:40:52,099 --> 00:40:46,949 no longer go get birthday don't like 938 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:52,109 that yes sir attempt to correlate these 939 00:40:57,819 --> 00:40:55,249 data with the moment of conception 940 00:41:01,429 --> 00:40:57,829 because that would seem a more accurate 941 00:41:03,370 --> 00:41:01,439 criterion you could get certain genetic 942 00:41:08,449 --> 00:41:03,380 changes whereas the moment of birth 943 00:41:10,849 --> 00:41:08,459 nothing much happens Suzy would seem the 944 00:41:12,859 --> 00:41:10,859 two are related to a certain extent 945 00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:12,869 certainly timing the moment of 946 00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:14,160 conception would probably be more 947 00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:15,599 challenging than timing the moment of 948 00:41:19,999 --> 00:41:17,569 birth 949 00:41:22,519 --> 00:41:20,009 we could probably time the day of 950 00:41:23,900 --> 00:41:22,529 conception pretty well but assuming a 951 00:41:26,209 --> 00:41:23,910 conception is when you actually have the 952 00:41:28,849 --> 00:41:26,219 sperm fertilizing the egg that event 953 00:41:35,329 --> 00:41:28,859 isn't always concurrent with the event 954 00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:35,339 that caused that so thanks so much for 955 00:41:41,679 --> 00:41:38,400 your presentation then Ingo Swan had 956 00:41:45,309 --> 00:41:41,689 written an unpublished manuscript that 957 00:41:48,109 --> 00:41:45,319 about mass murderers that their 958 00:41:52,539 --> 00:41:48,119 astrological charts actually lined up 959 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:52,549 pretty closely and he had transparent 960 00:41:57,620 --> 00:41:55,410 plastic sheets that showed their 961 00:42:00,429 --> 00:41:57,630 different charts you could lay them on 962 00:42:03,140 --> 00:42:00,439 top of each other he did 70 mm-hmm and 963 00:42:05,689 --> 00:42:03,150 the problem he said was trying to find 964 00:42:07,969 --> 00:42:05,699 the true birth time right of these 965 00:42:09,469 --> 00:42:07,979 criminals certainly well the true growth 966 00:42:11,439 --> 00:42:09,479 times always are a challenge and then 967 00:42:15,949 --> 00:42:11,449 again you still have this issue of 968 00:42:18,199 --> 00:42:15,959 expected frequencies so you know how 969 00:42:20,660 --> 00:42:18,209 many for at any particular time how many 970 00:42:21,529 --> 00:42:20,670 other non mass murderers are born and 971 00:42:23,660 --> 00:42:21,539 there's a number of other challenges 972 00:42:25,249 --> 00:42:23,670 that you have here but this would be 973 00:42:27,529 --> 00:42:25,259 another example potentially of an 974 00:42:29,959 --> 00:42:27,539 eminent professional maybe not the kind 975 00:42:31,549 --> 00:42:29,969 of eminence of a profession that you 976 00:42:33,049 --> 00:42:31,559 might be interested in but that's an 977 00:42:34,070 --> 00:42:33,059 interesting thought I'm not familiar 978 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:34,080 with that 979 00:42:48,410 --> 00:42:44,610 a big work though oh hello I do how are 980 00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:48,420 you fine okay so according to study real 981 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:52,110 time when our planet is aligned with the 982 00:42:57,890 --> 00:42:54,890 galactic center psy abilities are 983 00:43:00,320 --> 00:42:57,900 enhanced by like four times according to 984 00:43:03,590 --> 00:43:00,330 experimentation so I was wondering if 985 00:43:07,820 --> 00:43:03,600 there's any research done between people 986 00:43:11,090 --> 00:43:07,830 being born when the cola when we find 987 00:43:12,590 --> 00:43:11,100 what the galactic center inside he's I'm 988 00:43:14,270 --> 00:43:12,600 not aware that would be relatively 989 00:43:16,190 --> 00:43:14,280 straightforward to do if you have the 990 00:43:17,180 --> 00:43:16,200 first time week that's another point 991 00:43:19,010 --> 00:43:17,190 that you can calculate 992 00:43:21,230 --> 00:43:19,020 so that would be straightforward to do 993 00:43:28,010 --> 00:43:21,240 I'm not aware of that though cool thanks